Wednesday, February 6, 2013

IV CPC RANK PAY CASE: Payment made to serving offrs


Arrears credited to serving officers: IV CPC Rank Pay Case

Serving officers who were holding the rank of Capt to Brig as on 1/1/86 have received the arrears on account of the IV CPC Rank pay case. Amount credited varies from Rs 46000/- to Rs 120000/- depending upon the rank held. Modality of calculation can only be known once the officers receive the work sheet of the due/paid statement which would be sent by CDAO Pune on their email ids.

RDOA has filed RTI to know

1. How many serving officers have been paid in the rank of Capt to Brig.

2. How have the calculations been done. Provide details for worked out amount for each rank from Capt to Brig.

Solicitor General who argued the case for the UOI Mr Nariman has since resigned.

More info as and when known!!

 

91 comments:

Unknown said...

does resignation by nariman affects this case...?
will officers other than those who were capt-brig stand to gain anything?
Is next course of action dependent on RTI?

Bloomberg said...

@ Red Indian Cowboy & @ Ram Subbu

22400 CRORE RANK PAY SCAM IN DEFENCE

1. Rs 1600 Crores x 14 (Present Value of Rs 100) = Rs 22400 Crore

2. Matter now needs to be referred to CAG & HEADS MUST ROLL

Murarilal Agrawal said...

without work sheet payment of rank pay arrears is not possible then why along the payment worksheet not send by cdao to the affected officers.Is it not a funney state of affairs it put many questions on the working on the part of the CDAO .

Alok said...

Sir, I repeat my comments given in the subject of Agony Increases. Additional info through RTI can be sought from CDAO
(a)If it has followed the orders given by MoD letter of 27 Dec 2012 in totality if not what aspects.
(b) If initial refixation of Basic Pay in terms of Para 6 (a) (ii) without deducting rank pay has been done.
(c) If the pay of those officers who transited from IV CPC to V CPC to VI CPC and in terms of Para 8 of the ibid implementation letter also have been refixed.
If approved CDAO can be flooded with these queries.
AloK

Satyam Never Jayate said...

Resignation of Rohinton F Nariman does not materially affect the case. Some one else will represnt the UoI when the puppet that is MoD is made to dance by the hands of the Def/Fin, Dept of Expenditure ("concurrence" stated in the last paragraph of every MoD letter indicates who decides).

Dept of Exp, and its poorer cousin, Def/Fin decides what has to be done i.e. we will pay/not pay/ pay something.

Learned and knowledgeable Law Officers of the Govt are given inputs/briefs to argue in Courts. A cursory perusal of the orders of the Courts in this Rank Pay matter shows that most often it is the highest law officer in the State and the SG in the Supreme Court have stated the prepared positions and have consistently lost the case.

It does not mean that the Law officers do not have legal acumen but the case itself is weak. And now either a question of loss of face or worse, habitual obduracy, has prompted the MoF to compel the MoD to play on the words of the orders of the Apex Court.

Once the work sheets are available it would be possible to show the Apex Court how MoF and MoD have treated its sacrosanct orders.

Watch this space for more.

batsy said...

The CDA follows the implementation instructions of the MOD. What is at fault is the letter of 27 Dec 12. Hence the need to undertake measures to get this letter amended rather than see what CDA is doing. What would you have done if you were the CDA?? 27 Dec letter is very clear that rank pay deducted in Vth PC is valid. It does not amend the SAI of 1997 with regard to the deduction of RP!!

If the spirit of the judgement is not understood by MOD then it has to be directed by the Apex Court to understand in the legal terms. terms.

Batsy
Greater Noida

Rajesh said...

Why dont the RDOA take an appt and meet the Raksham mantri to apprise him? Alternatively,pls raise a question in coming session of Parliament,thru some MPs.Rajiv Chandrasekhar for example.

Unknown said...

@ rajesh
ANTONY aim is not the health of Arm Forces....
His aim is that madam soniya should be happy ......
how do you expect any thing from him?????
&&&&&&&&&&..
does any one in Parliament Except Mr Rajiv Chandrashekhar for bother.....
?????/

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Dear all,
seasons greetings
I personally feel that Mr.Nariman resigned, may be , because he could have sensed some thing fishy in this particular case and could not see EYE-TO-EYE with even RM besides his law min.
It is our moral duty to support him and get the real facts. you never know many heads in many ministries may roll. and the goi wants just to avoid this.
v.sundaresan

sunlit said...

The blog post mentions "serving" Officers who were serving in the ranks of Capt to Brig as on 01 Jan 86.

Firstly, would an Officer, who was in a rank higher than that of Capt as on 01 Jan 86, still be serving?

If not, then the higher figure of 1.2, after IT deduction, may not be too off the mark, considering the parameters set, rightly or wrongly, by the Govt. letter. This might even include revision of basic as on 01 Jan 96 due only to upward revision of bp for Dec 95, wrongful deduction of rp at V cpc being another matter altogether.

The sense one gets is, the 1.2L fig might apply to someone who was in the rank of Capt as on 01 Jan 86.

More when the statements start rolling in.

bala said...

Visibility- glaringly visible - internally AG br,DESW,PCDAs of MOD are well connected. every thing that is going on in MOD is joint effort.
What ever was perpetuated all these years-27 yrs-was all deliberate ,every one knew what was done as stated by that Brig of pay com cell in AG br (in 1987 ), who retired as Lt Gen in e mail /write up in blog REPORT MY SIGNAL ,"we have taken administrative action ...... to over come the problem as they perceived."
That perception was to avoid legitimate increase to officers of Lt Col and below in that integrated pay scale.He even boasted of his ( acumen ) action (dirty and disgraceful action in the light of supreme court judgement). THAT WAS TRUTH AND ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
Thus dont waste time going about asking/presenting/pleading/begging...etc for legitimate dues .Derive/take these by authority . One may keep the channels of talks ,But every one must adopt approach of RIGHTS-both in service and retired .
Judiciary has done enough - AF both serving and retd also have to do their bit .,

bala said...

NO AGONY NOW !Yes, agony was there in 1987 and few years there after.When money was most needed in those yrs -25 yrs- it was not paid-denied-robbed. We lived with 25-30 % less of legitimate dues.
Now after so much time,the value is only 10%. Since there was no prayer for penal interest and damages in that DANAPALANs writ pitition now and henceforth all these claims /derivations should go with such additional costs of interest to compensate for lower rupee,,value,harssment,damages,costs...etc . It is matter of some more time.some more wait-ultimately all these enlightened soldiers would get/derive/take , by due processes.

corona8 said...

I had provided a link to a calculator made as per GOI letter. Perhaps some of the serving Officers who have received the arrears could cross check, at least for the IV CPC part, as to where the deficiency lies.

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Dear all, the puzzle is continuing.In fact how many officers who were capt-brig in 86 ae continuing in service to day. most probably not more than 100.This is based on assumption that many of them could have retired even before their 33 years(incl weight-age). Assuming they were capt's rank in 86(after 6-7 yearsservice till 86), they could be maximum wearing Brig RANK. And the calculation is no where near the calculated one in simple terms as only"rank pay diff (+da).
Correct me if i am wrong.
if they have taken about five months to pay for these 100 or so officers, t may be no wonder if they ask for another one year extension of the date.
I personally feel they have been paid only capt/maj's pay diff and that too only for the 4 pc period(86-96). We have to wait for the working sheet.
v.sundaresan

bala said...

As i said earlier,those who were of Capt rk on 1.1.86 with 6 -9 yrs svc; say ,av 8 + 27= 35 yrs of svc as on today, 35+20 = I.e,55 yrs or above of age, they are present Corps cdrs and above incl chief .How many ???? less than 100.With computerised systems working and payment to these lot is 1 hour work. It was all publicity stunt and hoodwinking to say- they have paid promptly to them.
Other factor is , they cannot fool around with them in re-fixing on 1.1.86 and subsequent increases due if any on 1.1.96 and 1.1.2006.Strange (may be expected ) ,none of these fraternity of officers have given out any info ,nor PCDA (o) ,so far ..THAT IS IT >

ON critical analysis, one thing is crystal clear.THAT 4 TH CPC AND INTEGRATED PAY SCALE plus rk pays ,CONCEPTUALLY BY THAT hon:ble MAZZUMDAR WAS THE BEST SOLUTION TO THE RK (PYRAMID) STRUCTURE OF AF-based on all those projections by AF.But at the time of implementation level ,those in built provisions have been mutilated-negated-violated in that processes of transition ( 3 TO 4 CPC) and pay fixing. That was pay fixing in 1986, and now the game of re-fixing is going on.
ULTIMATELY,IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT NFU ( non functional up gradation ) WAS IN BUILT IN THAT 4 TH CPC, i.e, an officer with more svc would get higher integrated pay than an officer with lesser svc- rank pays are higher for higher rks up to Brig . can u all see????think-think!

Those ( drafts) in para 3. (a) (i ) and (ii) of SAI 1/s/1987 and the designed formule (disguised deception ) of pay fixing in para 6 is mutilation of those provisions of in built NFU ( in 1986 ) by that RACHANA ( compose )of AG branch and MOD. That fauxpas ,having been bought to surface by DANAPALAN and RDOA. all other issues can be duly derived.
THEREFORE KEEP THE ACTIVITY GOING.
REMEMBER AI is not ultimate . if any stipulations or impositions or insertions in AI are not consistent with other provisions and related provisions they stand modified-null and void( violative of constitutional provisions of equality....etc ).
Sharpen your wits ,mind and .....

sunlit said...

@bala Shouldn't your equation be 30+27 yrs of age? Incidentally, one needs to examine all possibilties of restrictions that can be imposed on the enhancements due.

Ravi Rao said...

The fixation on 1.1.86 for Majors is likely to be

1700/3900,1750/4050 ,1800/4200,1850/4200

sunlit said...

@Ravi Rao: I had pointed out the uncertainty of results with guesswork in my previous comment. If para 6 of SAI 1/S/87 can be reproduced, or a link provided to the same, all would be clear in a flash as the GOI letter is very specific on the way one has to go about the matter.

SATPAL SHARMA said...

Dear Sir, (RDOA)
It took more than 15 yrs of fight for court (SC) to finally give verdict to pay back RP deducted.
RDOA is fully convinced, there is a requirement to redraft the integrated pay pay scale in 4th n 5th CPC and min. pay for capt to brig. the cascading effect of such re-fixation in 4 n 5 cpc as increase in BP in 4 n 5 cpc and eventual pay in band in 6cpc is a natural consequence. even a novice is given this work would arrive at this conclusions.
Even after 15 yrs of fight in court having won still the arrears which was to be between Rs 7 - 9 lacs each officer joined in 3 n 4 cpc, 4-5 lacs joined in 5th cpc, has been delebratly limited to officers in 3 cpc that too capt to brig as on 1-1-86, even for them miniscual amount of 46000 to 120000 if paid. how RDOA is keeping quite?
So many people died waiting for thier due justice, still our RDOA is in the first step of RTI, knowing fully well that what ever be the calculation, the arrears can't be rs 46000/-, what is stopping RDOA to carry out road show to convince the public of delebrate wrong doing by all those in the helm of affairs.
why not hunger strike?
Why not contempt petition?
How long u want we senior citizens to wait?
Don't u feel justice delayed is more than denied. in fact it is denied u feel bad for few days and forget there after but it is total outrage of warrior vetrans. how it is tolarated?
They are clearly telling
'I will not pay u go to any body' through their action and RDOA is contemplating RTI while they have shown 2 fingures to SC verdict.
If u feel can get ur due being in comfert zone, just forget. it is dis-appointing to note weak actions of RDOA.
May god bless all.

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

Dear all effected veterans,pl wait for some more time.G of I M o D will have no other choice but to implement the judgement of various dates in this case."Veer wahi hai jo aakhiri prahar taq dheer aur gambheer rahe"

Satyam Never Jayate said...

This is an adaptation from MK Kaw' book 'Bureaucracy gets crazier', chapter 20, pages 78 & 79 titled "Ape Antics in North Block". Kaw was member-secretary of 5 CPC, which formalised the (now illegal 4 CPC) deduction of rank pay before re-fixation.

Adaptation starts: -

Suppose you have received ...assurances at sufficiently high levels that the court's orders would be (implemented) correctly; you follow its fortnightly progress with ill-concealed glee, ...it seems to be within your grasp already.

Suddenly one day you get a decision on which registers are silent, computers inscrutable.

What could have happened? Why? With what motive? A hundre questions rear their ugly heads.

All the speculation is just a waste of time. What has happened is very, very, simple.

It the good old King Monkey of North Block. He mutters, he snarls, he growls, he makes faces. He makes his royal displeasure known in no uncertain terms. This may possibly be called the indirect impact of the apes of the North Block on Govt policy.

He has intervened to interpret the Apex Court's orders so that Armed Forces officers, NoK etc continue to be deprived of what the Apex Court awarded them.

Adaptation ends.
Jai Hind

Aerial View said...

A source who wishes to remain anonymous as he does not have the authorization to speak officially on this Rank Pay matter said that the matter is back with the Ministry of Finance for amendments/corrigenda or issue of a fresh GoI letter which should be in consonance with and faithful to the orders of the Hon'ble Supreme Court.

The source also said that we should not expect that amendment/corrigenda or fresh letter this month as MoF would be busier with the Budget.

Whether the source was shooting s**t or speaking the truth will be known in March.

Dhoop said...

@Aerial View: Did the source at least say when the arrears as per the un-modified letter would be coming through?

chowpc said...

Satpal Sharma please don't cry like a baby and cool down. RDAO is just a group/association of retired AF officers and is our rep for taking further legal course of action as deemed legally fit. and No (R)No more. This kind of hyper comments will not help.Thanks and best of luck.
chowpc

SATPAL SHARMA said...

Dear chowpc,
I am one amog RDOA. friend, A person who bears injustice is equally blame worthy as a person who causes injustice. learn to be polite with your brotherens who is more aged than u. a court decision came after 15 yrs. the same is misinterpreted to make limited application. even money worked out is beating all logic. friend chowpc, pl forget rs 200-1200 rank pay wef 1-1-86. just take rs 50/- as on 1-1-86, there after calculate da n each mont rs 50 till 31-12-95, there after add latest da to rs 50/- then add 40% of rs 50. all put together, increase in basic pay required in 5 cpc comes. then add da in similar manner workout arrears for 5 cpc period. the product of rs 50/- + DA = xyz, xyz+40% of xyz +DA @31-1-95 = abc, abc X 1.86 = final increase in pay in band as on 1-1-06. If all resultant product rs 50 as on date with da n further increase in PB in 5 n 6 cpc works out much more than Rs 46000/- without including intrest wef 1-1-06. imagine what would be the amount of arrears for rs 200/-pm on 1-1-86. the jan 13 pay slips are available with serving officers who were capt as on 1-1-86. when people belive they are above even SC you want veterns to wait on top u r using impolite language. kindly don't hurt n get hurt. may god bless u.

SD Ramakrishna said...

Dear choupc, I think Satpal Sharma
is right in his capacity. All of us affected and discriminated by some dignitaries/system, need to be more resolute and help/encourage RDOA to continue and take our efforts to its logical end. I think GOI is just buying time till next F/Y, i.e. Apr 13, for its budgetary provisions considering the amount of arrears to be paid in case of Def as well as Civ pensioners view ratification of min of pay in the pay band for particular Rank/ Grade. On hearing of some imp pending cases of AFTs and CATs in The Supreme Court, the effecting date for payment of difference in pension (particularly for Civilian pensioners) is likely to be 01-01-2006 and GOI may not be left with much of the choice but to accept SC ruling in its letter and spirits.

Let us all hope for the best, put up united fight and get our legitimate dues approved/paid prior to forthcoming General Election. Its Now or Never like situation. If not resolved by Oct 13,likely to get forwarded to VII th CPC,and we all can anticipate the out come for sure i.e. lots of mischief and further degradation of Defence Service scales by cunning acts of MOD and CDAs at implementation level. God Bless us All and give more and more courage to withstand all undesired situations and hardships we and families may continue to face in future, till our final exit from the scene of mother earth.

Good Luck and B'regards,

DS Ramakrishna

Aerial View said...

@dhoop, Please wait for the developments. The source has re-confirmed that we may expect a paradigm change and not to expect arrears as per the present orders.

Sorry, the source also does not want to reveal more and unnecessarily spike elation of the kind he saw after 4.9.2012 and the deflation he witnessed in the many blogs.

Satyam Never Jayate said...

@sunlit, try http://pcdapension.nic.in/VTHCPCORDERS/1998/commorder5.htm

sunlit said...

@Satyam Never Jayate: Thanks, but that web-page relates to V CPC. What I'd mentioned was the SAI 1/S/87 relating to IV CPC on which the current govt. letter is based.

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

Why not to project the case with Media "AJJ TAQ".Let us take appointment with them.A team of four Retired Army Officers should appear in the interview and highlight the real truth before the Nation as to how the implementation of the court judgement has been delayed for more than 26 years and the legitimate entitlement of Arm Forces officers hasbeen dd/delayed. I offer my self .

corona8 said...

@Maj Sarjoo Prasad:"...AJJ TAQ..." Hats off to your brilliant suggestion. That, of course, will resolve all the issues. Pity no one else thought of it before. Supreme example of strategic reasoning, if ever there was one :-/

Rajesh said...

I reiterate my suggestion posted here before. Now that the budget session is to start soon,why dont the RDAO put a starred question in Parliament for details of rank pay paid and connected calculations etc..etc..Also,questions to be raised on the insensitive functioning of Dept of Ex servicemen Welfare,where they keep on fighting legal battles against the hapless retd servicemen.The cost of legal fees paid to Govt counsel will be more than the dues entitled to poor disabled ESMs.If atleast,three MPs raise the same question in Parliament,RM will be forced to answer,on the floor ,else it will be answered separately to the MP after session is over.!! That loses any significance.

Ravi Rao said...

@RDOA
Sir, On the date of next hearing for extension of time we should inform the HSC that PCDA had preserved all documents from 1.1.86 after Dharmapalan case was decieded as they were anticipating this cause to be taken up by other officers.The delay is intentional to cause harrassment and prolong the case. UOI/MOD is not maintaining transprency by making it public as to what is being paid and the calculation thereto. In case arrears are only upto 31.12.1996 we should get interest @ 12% from that date. We can later take up the matter for V & VI CPC.
Also SAI 1/S/1987 needs to be ammended as there cannot be two sets of payscales in one National Armed Force.Regards

WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD) said...

Dear all, I personally request RDOA request the details of payment to the serving officers. Surely, there must be at least some very senior officers of the rank of LT.GEN in the membership of RDOA. and they can just show the way magnanimously., instead of RDOA going thro' RTI route.
v.sundaresan

DS Ramakrishna said...

Dear Maj Sarjoo Prasad, proposal to highlight case on " Ajj Taq " is most needed and relevant approach.Kudos and thanks for the brave idea. Please tie up with well equipped and like minded Veterans, and let the nation learn this issue earliest. Also do make an point to project existing glaring difference in pension amount (Rs 11400/- bp+DA) of pre 01-01-06 Majs and Lt Cols and equi ranks, along with probable solution such as all pre 06 Maj rank pensioners with 21 plus years of qualifying/ pensionable service be considered for award of Lt Col (TS) pension scale, since post AVS I, all commissioned officers with 13 yrs of service make to Lt Col (Time bound). This is the only likely solution to bridge existing unreasonable/unacceptable gap. An amount of 18205/- as approved by the Cabinet Committee, is grossly unjust and needs to be corrected before implementation of GOI/MOD orders on the subject.

Maj Navdeep Singh, if available, can be very important asset and link to translate your Thought in to Desired Action.

Good Luck and All The Very Best,

Sainathan said...

Ref DS Ramakrishna,
Please refer to circular No. 14 dated 2/1/2013 of PCDA(P). Subst Majors with 21 years of service as on 1/1/96 have been granted pension as applicable to Lt Col (PB-4). If you are affected, take action as per the circular 14 of pcda(p), which appears under orders pertaining to VI CPC.

DS Ramakrishna said...

Dear Sainathan Sir, thanks for valuable response. We all the regular followers of ESM blogs are aware of the orders/letter ibid.

I am concerned with Maj and Equi pensioners retired betwn Jan 96 to Nov 2004, with pensionable /qualifying service of 21 yrs and above and not 21 yrs of commissioned service only. Majority pensioners in this category are Tri Services Ex-Ratings who picked-up their commission as in-service candidates, and happen to be single largest looser in pensionary benefit, post award of AVS I Recommendations and VI CPC, most of them happened to be retired on completion of 28 to 32 yrs of service (on completion of superannuation age of 52yrs).

Lt Cdr Avtar Singhji happens to be one amongst aprox 4000 of them, who filed and won the famous case in AFT, regarding Min of Pay in the band and not the min of pay band, based on which, latest Modified Parity / OROP as claimed by CoS, GOI/ MOD orders have been issued for all officers retired pre 01-01-06, up to the Brig rank. However case is pending in SC for hearing wherein the effecting date for payment of arrears may hopefully be decided as 01-01-06 against the 24-09-12 as decided by the Cabinet Committee.

Hope things are clear now. Any fresh/ latest info is welcome.

B'regards,

Rakesh said...

@Sainathan, DS Ramakrishna : Dear Sir. Please refer to Mr DS Ramakrishna's comment regarding Majors retired between 96 and 2004. My father was also commissioned from the ranks in Dec 93 as an RCO commissioned officer. He retired in Mar 2004 as a Major after completing about 31.5 years of total service (not commissioned service). His commissioned service was 10 years. Will he also be applicable for the Lt Col pension as per PB-4.
Anyone please throw some light on the issue.

Sunkiranalu said...

Dear All,

We know what is happening. We are talking in between us only. The persons who signed AI of IVth CPC implementation in 1987, AI 1997 for implementation of Vth CPC and the rank pay implementation letter of dated 27 Dec 2012 based on the judgment of Honourable High Court of Kerala & the judgment of Honourable Supreme Court of India have not only ditched us but it was their efforts to downgrade the AF Officers community. The signing authorities of these entire have not only ditched AF officers but it was a collective conspiracy to down grade AF officers. We now have written authorities including the Courts pronouncements, what are we waiting for. All the references which are referred above clearly show collective conspiracy against AF Officers. Either we accept or retaliate it. It is up to us now. We have many ways now. One of the ways is to file contempt case for making the Honourable Supreme Court judgment redundant by a babu who signed the implementation letter of 27 Dec 2012. The other way is to file FIRs. Who can stop all veterans to file FIR against such conspirators in every district and every state? Nobody can stop veterans of doing it. Just do it and see the actions. We have Honourable Court pronouncements, and people have made it redundant. Why to approach courts again, let us file FIRs against those by name who signed the AIs in 1987, 1997 and rank pay implementation letter on 27 Dec 2012. Let the case go for investigation by FIR then only the police, SBIs, CBI and even the CAG will jump into action. Let babus have thousands of FIRs lodged against them in the country. We waited for 27 years; let us wait for some more time. Let us prove the collective conspiracy by the babus and politicians against AF Officers. Please down load the Courts pronouncements and lodge FIR in every town, every district and in every state wherever the veterans are staying because it is directly effecting them and then see the fun. We have legal authority with us, no police can deny of lodging FIR. If any police denies lodging FIR then file FIR against that Police authority. Let us go firm on this way. Let investigating authorities find out as to how the babus have ditched and downgraded the AF Officers.


Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

I have a very sincere suggesion in this respect.We should now explore the possibilities of highlighting this issues with all the media,leader of the opposition,speaker of the Lock Sabha and also the Supereme Commander of the foreces ie The President of India .Let us inform them all what is happening.Secondly,why RDAO is not intimating us as to what is our further course ofaction we are planning fo

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

I have a very sincere suggesion in this respect.We should now explore the possibilities of highlighting this issues with all the media,leader of the opposition,speaker of the Lock Sabha and also the Supereme Commander of the foreces ie The President of India .Let us inform them all what is happening.Secondly,why RDAO is not intimating us as to what is our further course ofaction we are planning for

Air Martial said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
corona8 said...

@Maj Sarjoo Prasad: "..Let us inform them all what is happening.." :-) And, of course, they don't already know!! Another gem of a brain-wave. With so many brain-waves coming one after the other, we'll get a brain-tsunami.

Air Martial said...

@Wg Cdr Sundaresan, there are members of the RDOA of the rank mentioned but they were not the "fighting force" who were present at every hearing of TP (C) 56 of 2007 and then the IA 9 of 2010. The "fighting force" have all documents viz. affidavits, counter-affidavits, additional affidavits etc. The "fighting force" are aware of the arguments advanced and countered by respondents and petitioners alike which finally resulted in the order of the Supreme Court dated 4.9.2012.

Secondly, the RDOA has a certain number of members but the "fighting force" took up the cause of all (R) all similarly placed officers viz. even those who did not file cases or become members of the RDOA. This is reflected in the order of the Apex Court dated 4.9.2012. This happened, as was narrated on 30.9.2012 in the open house, in the face of fierce opposition of the UoI that only those who were party to TP (C) 56 of 2007 be paid arrears.

Third, without complete information, you know this very well, a high rank cannot offer advice (however unsolicited or superfluous) to the "fighting force."

Fourthly, I am confident, and I am sure there will be others who agree with me, that the "fighting force" is organizing the waterproof arguments when the UoI application comes for extending the time limit imposed in the Apex Court's order of 4.9.2012.

Finally, I have filed a RTI in Nov 2012. MoD has deflected it all over but finally I was asked last week to pay an additional amount of Rs 280/- for providing me photocopies of the information. (@Rs 2 per page, that is 140 pages, give or take a few for postage, if the MoD wants to charge me for that.)

I have saved the correspondence till now on my blog and will publish it as soon as I receive the finally tranche.

S Y Savur

Air Martial said...

@Maj Sarjoo Prasad - please read up the posts on Livefist (Shiv Aroor, Dy Editor now Headlines Today), Chindits (Ms Suman Sharma, Dy Editor Midday), Lt Col Ajai Shukla who was with NDTV & others. They highlighted the case and when TRPs/eyeballs are on the errors of commission and omission of the UPA govt on 2G, CWG, Vadraji, CAG, Koyalkhanji (coalmines allotment scam) etc of several thousand crores loss to the Public exchequer, even Aaj Tak (which went viral with the case of the twin-murder)has not bothered that Rs 1624 crores was to have been paid in compliance with an order of the Supreme Court. Just a reality check - has any channel/newspaper highlighted that MoD has not complied with the orders?

Let us give the space for RDOA to do its home-work thoroughly before the UoI application comes up for hearing.

@corona8, patience, Sir, patience. You and some others, like me, have followed this blog and the RDOA website since their inception. We know how, what, when and why things happened. But fresh blood, never mind the age, always wants results yesterday.

S Y Savur

DS Ramakrishna said...

Dear Rakesh, as per the existing orders as of now, the clarification to your point is "NO".

My comment/request to Maj Sarjoo Prasad has been regarding the same issue. Understand the issue of correction in award of Pension to pre 06 retired Maj, taken up by some
forums of ESM Welfare Organizations, with various authorities and outcome/legitimate decision awaited.

Can we expect some authenticated / valuable information, if any known, from Air Martial SY Savur and/ or some other Veteran, aware of this issue.

B'regards,

MAJOR NAZAR SINGH GILL said...

Maj NS Gill effected for service benefits by the following;-1 Counting of former service for pension viz adding ranks service (19 yrs 228 days total.No benefit after 33 years service 39 years 55 days)pension to officers pension.No benefit after 33 years service.2.IV C P C rank pay,I was commissioned on 25 Jul 1983 and retired on 01 Feb 2003.Offg/Actg Capt wef 01 Jan 1987 and Subs/Capt on 25 Jul 1989.Subs Major 0n 25 Jul 1996.3. Disability pension 30% to be broad banding to 50% wef 01 Feb 2006.4. Lt Col promotion/pension having 19 years 6 months 7 days commissioned service.5. Grant of modified parity method pension from 01.01.2006 instead of 24.09.2012.

MAJOR NAZAR SINGH GILL said...

Major NS Gill comments continued.6. Rs. 400 deducted while pay fixation from IV to V C P C. Pay fixed Rs. 10,500 instead of Rs.10.900.7.Parity with I P S officers pay in 14th year and one extra increment of Rs. 325 to be given to majors while fixing pay at 11600+1200+325=13125 as directed by AFT Delhi.As per this Pay of Major to be in PB-4 as afyter adding Rs.1200 rank pay and one extra increment it works out to be Rs.14325 (selection grade pay Rs.14300-18300) were placed in PB-4 with Grade Pay of Rs.8700.

Bloomberg said...


What a Party! What a joy!

MOD, Babus, PCDA are rejoicing in ecstasy seeing us collecting COINS FROM GROUND thrown by them.....

Satyam Never Jayate said...

@Bloomberg, your cynicism is appreciated and understood. If there was some feedback/update rather such abstract announcements, then probably many of us wouldn't share your feelings.

Everything seems to have become frigid - on the challenge to the UoI's application for extension (and the 12 addl weeks will be over next week), the payment of arrears to Veterans etc.

We seems to be giving a lie to the axiom that Time and Tide wait for no man; sadly, we are waiting for the correct time and the correct tide.

Dhoop said...

@Satyam Never jayate: Where's the fire? Let the disbursement authorities complete the task of disbursing the first tranche as per the GOI letter.

RDOA have already filed a RTI application on the manner of calculation.

We are in for several successive helpings of our dues.

Let's not be greedy for all the courses of the meal at the same time.

Satyam Never Jayate said...
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Satyam Never Jayate said...
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Satyam Never Jayate said...

@Dhoop, I admire your advice and opinions - always out of the box! When all are jumping with joy you do the "water cannon" treatment. When people are despairing you write about the silver lining of the line squall (you know those thunder clouds that spread out in an unending line.) Like I wrote - Wow! Out of the box, indeed!

I have not asked for results and never did. I am only stating that RDOA could update members and similarly placed officers, on what is happening.

As for the RTI, I sent one to MoD (Pay/Services) 65 days ago. It has traveled from MoD to MoF and I get a RPAD letter (3 times so far) every time it is sent elsewhere stating that under Sec 6 (3) it has been transferred to xxxx and yyyy CPIO. But I have not received any information, As per the RTI norms I should have had the information in 30 days.

As I write this I received a RPAD from MoD asking me to send an additional amount as cost of photocopying the documents containing the information I have requested.

Sunkiranalu said...

Augastha kick backs case has pushed our rank pay case into cold storate. I dont feel bad of this push but I would like all those babus in MOD, MoF and the so called leaders involved in augastha kick backs to be lodged behind the bars. Some one blogged here that MOD, MoF and PCDA(O) are partying and rejoicing on our picking up the coins spilled by them, now let us see and rejoice while the babus and leaders picking up the food from the ground behind the bars.

DS Ramakrishna said...

@ Sunkiranalu Ji, your concern and apprehensions in Augasth kick back is appreciated but based on the experienced gained, regarding established SOPs of concerned babus from MOD, MoF and Politicians of Party in Power, leave aside hooking them, should not be surprised if even names of the actual beneficiaries wont surface in any inquiry by CBI, CAG etc.

No need to mention that defence procurement has been single largest unquestionable vast source of fund for any Govt in power, right from independence and these patriotic VVIPs/ babus have gained immense expertise in ways and means to receive bounty without being noticed/ caught with so called evidential proof.

Let us not expect much to come out of this bubble except some guy in uniform and lower level employee may be conveniently projected and protected/ rewarded latter, on cooling the steam. Regards.

Sunkiranalu said...

@DS Ramakrishna Ji

As the opposition is going strong on kick backs, the manipulators ie babus and politicians are busy in their manipulations to save their own skin, now they have no time to see our files.

Unknown said...

@ RDOA can we take these cases
http://airforcechat.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/discriminatory-treatment-to-defence-forces-extension-re-employment/

SANTOKH said...

Dear Veterans,
Sorry I posted this message on the wrong post. PCDA(O) has asked the veterans to check their details for payment of Rank Pay arrears. Please visit the following link:-
https://pcdaopune.gov.in/RetiredOfficersDetails.aspx

Beetel Bite said...

Newsflash** at PCDAO website. For retd officers in service as on 01 Jan 1986 in the rk of Capt to Brig. Link for verification of details for early payment of due amount. https://pcdaopune.gov.in/RetiredOfficersDetails.aspx

Col Pardaman Singh

rajaraman said...

I had visited CDA(O) Pune yesterday and met the officer in their EDP section. According to him , the arrears of Rank Pay for the Retired officers will be credited in the respective banks today i.e 15 Feb 2013. So it is anytime now we should be getting the rank pay arrears.

As for the details , i.e due and drawn statement as he calls it, will be available by the end of this month since printing the details of 28000 officers is bound to take time.

Officers may visit PCDA ( O) web site and correct their details particularly that of their bank in case of any discrepancies and their PPO details and address.

Murarilal Agrawal said...

Govt making all of us fool in recent helicopter kick backs under the shield of inquiry. so far ,as we know, most of the time Inquiries has never
given results except that it used as delaying and diluiting the gravity of the offence tactics . The same has been done in case of Rank pay, one rank one pay other cases .
Had it been any politician or babuji favouravable then,,,,

Aerial View said...

It is understood that the Service HQ had taken up with the Raksha Mantri (have dropped the Hon'ble as per the desire of President of India) highlighting the anomalies and dissonance between what the orders of the Supreme court were and what the Min of Fin & Def/Fin had cleared leading to the issue of the Govt letter of 27.12.12.

It is also understood that the matter has been referred to Min of Fin to provide a solution so that being hauled up for contempt etc is removed.

Will good sense prevail? (Better sense is asking for too much!!!!)

P.S: Whatever happened to the 14 other litigants who featured in TP (C) 56 of 2007 and IA no.9 of 2010?

DS Ramakrishna said...

@ Aerial View : your revelation / findings (through reliable source)
helps sooth prevailing uncertain circumstances regarding applicability of Rank Pay. Hope things come through as being commented. Thanks for keeping the hope alive, time to time. B'regards.

Abe said...

@Rajaraman
I visted the web site and typed in my IC number it says your name is not on the list. They want us to fwd information to PR cell. Why dont they just deposit it in current pension account and be done with it.

SANTOKH said...

@ Abe,If you have not sent the details asked earlier, then the following message is flashed on your IC Number.
PCDA(o) does not have your pension a/c. It would be better if you send your details asked earlier by PCDA(O)
“Sorry!!! Details filled by you don’t match with any
of the record in the database. Your documents
have not been received in PCDA (O). You are
advised to send your documents (by POST only) on the
following address-

PR Cell,
O/o Pr. CDA (O),
Golibar Maidan,
Pune – 411 001

MAJOR NAZAR SINGH GILL said...

DELETE comments of MAJOR NAZAR SINGH GILL published on 12 Fen 2013 at 1041 pm and even dated at 1110 pm. email majornsgill3025@gmail.com

Ravi Rao said...

@RDOA
Sir, are we proceeding against UOI/MOD for not implementing agreed terms as per Affidavit. Let us know so that we can send our contribution. Regards

Kr Verma said...

High time RDOA filled contempt petition in SC,
we r with u and would like to be a party in contempt proceedings,

Col RK Verma,
a serving offr

Kr Verma said...

Thanks to RDOA for having fought and won the rank pay case in SC,
implementation of SC judgement would be difficult and only way out to file a contempt petition in SC and take the case to logical conclusion,
we r with u and would like to be part
of your movement, physically, morally and financially,

Col RK Verma,
a serving offr

Satyam Never Jayate said...

Just a thought for the RDOA - 24 weeks since 4-9-2012 ended on Valentine's Day.

Young50 said...

Dear All ! A small digress from Rank Pay case. As per Govt letter issued on 13 Feb 13 reg revision of pension og pre-2006 pensions, Para 5 stipulates that "5. In case the pension/family pension in respect of pre-2006 pensioners/family pensioners has not already been revised w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the same may also be revised for the period upto 23.9.2012 in terms of order dated 1.9.2008 and subsequent orders thereto and for the period from 24.9.12 in terms of order of even number dated 28.1.2013.". This privision is not given in the letter for pension of veterans. A smart move by the civilian bureaucracy. I hope vigilant veterans and RDOA/Maj Navdeep would take note of this injustice and do the needful instead of some novice trying tofight a case in isolation without knowleddge or financial back-up.

RDOA and Air Martial your silence is deafening. Pl boost up the sagging morale!

Ravi Rao said...

@Young50
Please could you let us know the link to letters of 28.1.13 & 13.2.13

SATPAL SHARMA said...

WHO IS LISTENING TO OUR CRY:-
In a teen age with full of love for mother land, i joined AFS like many of my brotherens. did not care for personnal discomfert. did not care for family comforrts, childeren education advantage of being at one best place. gave our youth in pride.
people sitting in ac comfort kept on deciding our fate including second innings fate having retired at 54, when no one need u. the retirement benefit of total 40 lakhs cannot even guarantee a own house satisfaction, thanks to the fdi in housing sector.
Now the legitimate due, which even highest court of the country has recognised and ordered, is denied, by use of own prejudice n words in the name of benefit to ex-chequer, about which they them self are not bothered.
RDOA has done a lot, but still we are deprived. if people in helm of affairs don't listen, rdoa must go to the people who vote them to explain the injestice mated on us.

Aerial View said...
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Aerial View said...
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Aerial View said...
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Air Martial said...

@Young50 & Satpal Sharma,

Probably, RDOA is waiting for (1) to see what the Services HQ will do, (2) what information is provided in reply to the RTI, (3) for the application for 12 weeks extension to come up for hearing, (4) etc etc.

In the meantime, for taking your mind off, read Aerial View's post on sharad10525.blogspot.in


good samaritan said...

Dear all

CDA Pune website now contains the calculation made by them in accordance with the HSC.

Ravi Rao said...

@All Vetrans
PCDA has started crediting arrears

Venkatesh said...

Retired officer have started getting the arrears

DS Ramakrishna said...

@Good samaritan, Ravi Rao : Calculations as shown on CDAO Pune site reflects considerations for Capt to Brig in commission as on 1-1-86 and arrears applicable till 5-5-96 only. Period thereafter is not applicable for revision of pay as per the pay slab of V th CPC takes care of particular rank.

@ Ravi Rao Sir, please clarify if Officers commissioned post 1-1-86 and 1996 also receiving arrears!!!

Venkatesh said...

I can vouch for that since i got mine today for around 32000/. I was a Captain with 6 years service on 01 Jan 1986

Ravi Rao said...

@DS Ramakrishna
Only those officers who were Capt to Brig as on 1.1.86 infer rest

Young50 said...

@ Ravi Rao , 18 Feb 13 8.52 am.
Sorry for the belated response due to my limited knowledge on blogging and linking posts.
Letter dated 28 Jan 13, pl refer Maj Navdeepis blog indianmilitary.info dated 28 Jan 13.
Letter dated 13 Feb 13. Pl go to www.staffcorner.com and refer right hand side menu under Orders Sl No 2.

This is the clever trick of Babus of IAS/IDAS to issue another letter on the same subject that is Revision of pension of pre-2006 pensioners. I could not understand much about two letters on two different dates. Para 5 of letter dated 13 Feb 13 quietly gives directions to PDAs to pay everyone wef 01 Jan 06 whereas it was wef 24 Sep 12 for veterans,a date fixed by some moron in the Ministry. Incidentally the appeal in the CAT reg this date is yet to be disposed off. Any inputs from anyone, pl enlighten the lesser mortals.
RDOA will not get a reply thro RTI on fixation since PCDA (O) has already flashed it on their website. Jai hind!

dogra said...

@Young50 ,Ravi Rao,

The letter dated 13 feb 13 appears to be applicable to civilian pensioners and not the defence veterans .

Ravi Rao said...

@RDOA
Request if you can write aletter to CJI of HSC regarding this blatant violation of Justice by making two sets of rules for Civilians & Service Personnel of the same country.

Satyam Never Jayate said...

@Ravi Rao, you can write an open letter to the CJI and it may be taken on as a PIL, if the Judge who determines action on each letter, so decides.

Why wait for RDOA, which appears to have its hands full with the Rank Pay matter?

Dasila said...

@Young50, flash msg of PCDA(O)on its
site is not admissible in court of law, hence legally they are bound to provide the information asked thru RTI which shall be piece of evidence
while arguing our case before the HSC.

Joy said...

Dear Sir,
I am 1970 batch Mech Inf offr.My batch picked up selection grade Lt Col in mid 1988.
I have recd a sum of Rs 89684/ rank pay arrears.I have down loaded calculation sheet from the website of CDA (O).
I am holding most of the pay slips wef Jan 1989 till 1996. Older payslips have been destroyed by me.
Perusal of the pay slips revealed that the amount shown in the calculation sheet BEFORE REVISION are much more then what has been paid to me or in the pay slip.
Do let me know if you need any document to support your case.

Regards
Col J Dasgupta VSM (Retd)

bikram thapa said...

Officer who passed out in Dec 85 as 2/Lt now he is Col not approved for next rank. He is not getting and arrears of rank pay why ? reason Govt, PCDA(O)and Babuji some poor IAS seating on the chair unable to understand SC verdict and English written on that day ie 04 Sep 2012. Please save my India with these public servant.